Disabled Feedback

Got any feedback for us from our second UK appearance, let us know about it in here
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kazz
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby kazz » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:14 pm

oh well, i am quite impressed that it has kinda been done before.

i didn't know that it existed. (hence all the daft suggestion comments). so it's pretty cool to see something like it has been used at a festival.

:)

what so you think?? do you think it would work?? having it tiered. i think it might be a good idea if it worked well at V festival. but obviously cost would be an issue and i have no clue about costs of these things.

:?
roll on madness and the offspring @ soni 2013!! =D
please use alex's fmc code 1k915233 when booking your ticket. thankies :D

joepescigrindcore
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby joepescigrindcore » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:15 pm

kazz wrote:not to sound daft cause i know (and so do others of course) that i am not the brightest anyways.

but how about making a three tier platform.

have the disabled people on the lower platform, the sound desk on the mid level and then whatever was high up on the sound desky thing on the top level. even stick speakers on it.

i have very little knowledge on this but it would free up the space, allow the disabled platform users to get closer and also give them some protection from the sun.

it may be a daft suggestion but it is a suggestion. do the same for apollo and saturn and if you really want to use it, stick a fixed camera pointing at the stage on the top level so that it can be used for the big screens.

:)

i hope this helps but like i said, i don't know very much about this sort of thing but i just thought about it and thought that it might work.

:?


saying you "have very little knowledge of on this"... you make a very sensible suggestion. In sweden the access platform was the lighting one to, of course the lights were super high and the customers where about half way up.

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kazz
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby kazz » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:25 pm

and do you think it worked better that way??

it's just for seeing the different options sonisphere have open to them.

personally, if financially, that isn't an option. i would still like the screen behind the sound stage cause i am normally quite far back due to the crowds anyway.

but if it has been done at another festival then it is comething that might be an option.

how did it work in sweden if the disabled platform was halfway up, could people walk around underneath it or was it sectioned off. i suppose if it is quite high, they could put two disabled toilets underneath it at the open side and having the ramp going round three sides of the platform so it doesn't take up too much room.

you know, like having a slope say leading up one side then a "corridor" wide enough to fit two wheelchairs and maybe a row of seats for the carers that don't need to stay with the people they are looking after. then a slope up at the other side leading up to the actual disabled platform.

it will probably be a lot more expensive doing two of these (one for each stage) but in the long run, i think it would be worth it. but that is just my opinion.

:)
roll on madness and the offspring @ soni 2013!! =D
please use alex's fmc code 1k915233 when booking your ticket. thankies :D

joepescigrindcore
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby joepescigrindcore » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:31 pm

billytheweed wrote:guys , we are trying to understand your complaints and issues with the festival so that we can work with the festival in order to make YOUR festival experience better next year , Zac has already commented and said that next year will be better.

please take our questions seriously being sarcastic doesnt help , we want to understand your position, we know that the issues are mainly the campsite not being big enough , and also the platforms not being right, please give us the options that would improve the festival for you , but remember there is not an unlimited budget for disabled customers, just like there isnt an unlimited budget for able bodied festival goers.

i have noted the comments on the double platforms , the 1/2 price ticket for carers, and the 0 tolerence on people not booking correctly, the sound and vision issues on the platforms this year. and they will be brought up at the focus group i am sure.


But you have to be sarcastic, when people are randomly coming into this thread and posting up rubbish("thousands of people wouldnt be able to see due to the platform being next to the sound desk"), when the questions/points have already be raised by people who unforutality had to use/pay for the disabled facilities at Knebworth. Its not as if we are bringing up new points over and over, we have all pretty much stated the same complaints about the festival. Then someone comes in who hasnt read the thread or didnt use the services and just posts up complete pointless rubbish.

no one said you have an unlimited budget for disabled customers, but when we pay for a service which we dont get, do you not think we have a right to feel abit pushed out because the festival didnt "budget" it in?

actual another thing i just thought of:

Accessible Food Counters? Ones with lower counters? Or staff who are willing to get out and help?

:confusion-helpsos:

joepescigrindcore
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby joepescigrindcore » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:37 pm

kazz wrote:and do you think it worked better that way??

it's just for seeing the different options sonisphere have open to them.

personally, if financially, that isn't an option. i would still like the screen behind the sound stage cause i am normally quite far back due to the crowds anyway.

but if it has been done at another festival then it is comething that might be an option.

how did it work in sweden if the disabled platform was halfway up, could people walk around underneath it or was it sectioned off. i suppose if it is quite high, they could put two disabled toilets underneath it at the open side and having the ramp going round three sides of the platform so it doesn't take up too much room.

you know, like having a slope say leading up one side then a "corridor" wide enough to fit two wheelchairs and maybe a row of seats for the carers that don't need to stay with the people they are looking after. then a slope up at the other side leading up to the actual disabled platform.

it will probably be a lot more expensive doing two of these (one for each stage) but in the long run, i think it would be worth it. but that is just my opinion.

:)


The main difference between Sweden and Knebworth, was they were ORGANISED before they even got there. The booking's were done in a sensible way, they LTD the amount of Disabled Customers due to space. They had an accessible toilet underneath the section, you went up a ramp on to the platform, and it was higher than the crowd, and a great view of the stage. Im not sure it would be more expensive to adapt a struction which has to be built anyways, to have an extra floor. where as the platforms at knebworth were built especially for the access alone.

Parsnip
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby Parsnip » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:43 pm

billytheweed wrote:
i have noted the comments on the double platforms , the 1/2 price ticket for carers, and the 0 tolerence on people not booking correctly, the sound and vision issues on the platforms this year. and they will be brought up at the focus group i am sure.


Also have the shuttle transport accessible!!! An accessible shuttle bus costs no more than a regular one, this was just awful planning especially for the prices Maz payed for RR, for that price I would have at least expected a bus with wheelchair tie downs and a seat bealt which is required by law, nevermind only the luck of a nice driver keeping his accessible bus on as it had not been organised.

The 1/2 price 'carer' ticket is treading dangerous grounds as that means for half of the time YOUR staff will need to PROVIDE assistance to disabled people.

Free companion tickets are for people who need assistance with their day to day personal care or mobility, they are just not for a disabled person to bring a freebie friend.

I employ my own support staff as I can't expect my friends to stay sober throughout an event to help me with things like medication, therefore if you were not going to offer a free companion ticket I would be paying double for my ticket and I wouldn't be able to afford to come to Sonisphere!
You need to realise that 'carers' enable disabled people in the same way a wheelchair does,without both I would be stuck in bed, so I don't expect to pay for something which is a medical need.

Venues(I've never heard of a festival not offering a free companion ticket) that do not offer a free 'carer' ticket have trained staff on hand to help with carrying drinks, getting around the venue, accessing the toilet etc etc. It willl cost more to provide masses of trained staff for disabled people attending your event than a free 'carer' ticket.

Also I understand your budget is limited but mainly it is a legal obligation under the DDA to offer equal access to 'services' and also if disabled people are not catered for you will lose a large amount of sales (as demonstrated by how many disabled people attended this year) thus end up worse off by not providing fair access.

I'm in no way asking for a special budget allocated to disabled people just the festival experience to be equal to that of non-disabled people!

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kazz
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby kazz » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:52 pm

i was think more the cost cause obviously making it three levels might increase the amount of money and staff required to build it.

from what i have read in the thread, and this is based on my opinion from what i have read on the forum only.

there are some things that soni did drop the ball on and the shuttle busses is definately one of them. it is something they should have forseen and catered for. they were offering accessibility tickets, so they should have had accessibility busses. perhaps next year, they should have a wee mini van sort of thing dedicated to maybe the disability patrons and also the vipers. but that is just an idea, thats all.

the platform has been discussed throughly and we are now trying to think of solutions for it, and personally, i think we have several possible solutions which hopefully billy will present to the focus group when they next meet.

to be completely honest, the whole food stalls being too high had never actually occurred to me. sorry. i can't really think of a solution for that other than the staff being able to come out of the van and hand the food over. sorry, i can't be of more help that that.

the camping has been spoken about a lot, and i think if soni could find the room, then maybe having the disabled camping section set out the same way as rock royalty with the dedicated blocks. but again this is just a suggestion which i think has been raised in this thread already and seems a logical solution depending on space.

i know this isn't all the problems that you all encountered but it is the ones i remember and can think of solutions for at this stage. hope it helps.

:)
roll on madness and the offspring @ soni 2013!! =D
please use alex's fmc code 1k915233 when booking your ticket. thankies :D

Parsnip
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby Parsnip » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:04 pm

Maz wrote: Parsnip - that was my fella you were behind on Sunday night in the bus, so we were all lucky to get a lift back! I might have paid for this service, but if it wasn't for the kindness of Terry and co it would have spoilt a large part of the weekend.

Positive stuff:-
It was a great atmosphere, we found everyone SO friendly, especially Abby from RR



*Waves* at Maz. Please apologise to your fella for me banging into his chair a million times on the bus! I loved his chair btw my everyday powerchair is a Quicke Salsa but his looked so much slicker, could you tell me what it's called so I can beg the NHS for one when my current one dies,hehe ?

Abbey was awesome, wasn't she!!! She deserves a raise or something!

I can't belive all the money you paid for RR, your needs were not catered for, I was under the impression that RR had full disabled access! It should be provided at the basic price anyways but not to provide it when you gave them so much more money, they can't even blame budget constraints!


I'm glad you had a good time and hopefully see you at another festival sometime, possibly even Sonisphere if they get themselves sorted!

joepescigrindcore
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby joepescigrindcore » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:26 pm

kazz wrote:i was think more the cost cause obviously making it three levels might increase the amount of money and staff required to build it.

from what i have read in the thread, and this is based on my opinion from what i have read on the forum only.

there are some things that soni did drop the ball on and the shuttle busses is definately one of them. it is something they should have forseen and catered for. they were offering accessibility tickets, so they should have had accessibility busses. perhaps next year, they should have a wee mini van sort of thing dedicated to maybe the disability patrons and also the vipers. but that is just an idea, thats all.

the platform has been discussed throughly and we are now trying to think of solutions for it, and personally, i think we have several possible solutions which hopefully billy will present to the focus group when they next meet.

to be completely honest, the whole food stalls being too high had never actually occurred to me. sorry. i can't really think of a solution for that other than the staff being able to come out of the van and hand the food over. sorry, i can't be of more help that that.

the camping has been spoken about a lot, and i think if soni could find the room, then maybe having the disabled camping section set out the same way as rock royalty with the dedicated blocks. but again this is just a suggestion which i think has been raised in this thread already and seems a logical solution depending on space.

i know this isn't all the problems that you all encountered but it is the ones i remember and can think of solutions for at this stage. hope it helps.

:)


The buses situation was so frustrating, as we were promised it would be provided.

The food counters, maybe look into it, they maybe people who specialise it in?

a quick example though. there was a queue of people at the noodle one next to the main stage, there was a kid on the left of me and i asked if he was getting served, in that space in time someone come from behind me and pushed in. The kid looked abit pissed off, and i asked him again if he was being served, he said no. So i told the lass serving, this kid was first, so i had to point out he was actually in the queue.

that came down to ignorant people pushing in with no manners, and the fact the counters where above his head. eventhough this kid was higher than my girlfriend who is a wheelchair user.

so you need to make them aware that they will have to provide service outside of the vans if someone needs it. cause there is no way they could reach down from most of them safely and hand the food out.

anyways, i think maybe thats another good/interesting point?

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kazz
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby kazz » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:33 pm

i agree it is definately a valid point.

and like i said, it isn't something that i would have automatically thought about. as much as soni can educate their own staff, unfortunately there are always going to be eejits out there who have no manners. which disappoints me cause we will pick people up in the pit if they fall but we won't hold a door open for someone and we'll shove in front of people. it makes me a bit sad to be honest.

:(

i feel rude not calling you by your name but it's cause i can't figure out where the spaces should be. is it joe??

:oops:
roll on madness and the offspring @ soni 2013!! =D
please use alex's fmc code 1k915233 when booking your ticket. thankies :D

impablomaitons
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby impablomaitons » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:42 pm

My idea of a 1/2 priced carer/companion ticket was an idea for meeting Soni 1/2 way... if budgeting is a concern for accessible platforms for stages.

Provision of a free carer ticket isn't mandatory. Before I was in my current situation, I worked as a carer and took many clients on short holidays/day trips around the uk, and I would say only roughly 50% of places that required paid entry gave a free or discounted ticket to a carer/companion. The giant fairground in Blackpool being a case in point, no reduction at all for a carer - if my client wanted to go in there it would have cost 2 full price tickets. Same for the Dr Who museum.

I know we as disabled (or whatever the current pc term is these days) just want to be able to enjoy certain activities as well as anyone else, but Soni and other companies only have a legal obligation to comply with the law. If we want them to go the extra mile for us e.g. better placement of platforms, then I think it is only right we meet them 1/2 way.

If someone knows now that they want to attend Sonispehere 2011, then 11 months to save up £80 or £90 extra for a 1/2 price ticket, at least to me is perfectly feasible. I live on £89/week - having to go to tribunal for DLA even though I can only walk 15yds max, but even I could scrape that little bit extra over 11 months.

I don't see the reasoning that if you are paying for a 1/2 price ticket, then Soni staff have to provide care 1/2 the time? The whole point of my idea was to provide extra funding which could be sectioned off to go towards much better/more expensive platforms.

5 heart attacks in past 3 years, severe claudication in both legs - probably amputation in next year or two, awaiting heart bypass surgery and minor brain surgery - and I would be more than willing to stump up an extra £80 or so if it would help. It's about time disabled people dropped the whole "I want EVERYTHING done for me but I don't want to contribute in the slightest" attitude, and realise that sometimes that if you want extra, you have to pay a little extra.

/rant

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kazz
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby kazz » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:13 pm

not trying to nit-pick but the problem with having a "pot" just for disabled patrons. (sorry, my vocabulary sucks so i just use the words i think are right so sorry if they aren't). the problem is that you will undoubtably have some non-disabled people who will argue that if disabled people get their own funds then non-disabled festival goers should get the same pot.

the whole aim here is to get equality and to me, segregating funding into disable and non-disabled festival goers is making it unequal and there is no need for it to happen. (in my opinion).

i agree with the funding of the tickets. the free carer ticket should maybe be more strictly assessed. for example: someone with a broken leg should not really be entitled to a free carer where as someone who requires full assistance to get washed and dressed in the morning, should be entitled to one. my cousin has ms and sometimes she can walk and stand and do everything i can do (almost) but other times she can't get out of bed and it is a very unpredictable disease. so how do we determine who is eligible.

i just think that we should keep the "pots" the same as before and perhaps reassess the space we have and what we are able to do with it.

as i say, this is just my opinion and feel free to debate it with me, i would rather we get the festival right for everyone. and i think that is everyone's main aim in team soni or they wouldn't be asking for feedback.

:)
roll on madness and the offspring @ soni 2013!! =D
please use alex's fmc code 1k915233 when booking your ticket. thankies :D

impablomaitons
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby impablomaitons » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:33 pm

I mostly agree with you Kaz. I probably wasn't making myself too clear, i don't mean all disabled tickets revenue goes into a seperate pot, I meant the just the carers ticket (if they did go the 1/2 price route).

That is money Soni wouldn't normally be getting anyways if a carers ticket is free, but if there is that little extra income from a carers ticket - hell even if they make it a nominal fee like £30 or something, that could be a little extra to add to whatever their budget is for viewing platforms.

Do people think £30 for a carers ticket would be more acceptable? That certainly is within most if not everyones reach.


VERY rough guestimate... don't kill me! :)
£30 x approx 500 carers = £15,000. Should help nicely towards a spiffing platform like the one at V festival.

If Soni go with something along the lines of my idea... may I request you get Henry Rollins back and arrange him to meet me so I can get my Black Flag EP signed? roflmao

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kazz
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby kazz » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:44 pm

ah, right. that makes more sense.

yeah, even just a small fund for a carer's attendance but then how do you decide what to use it on and what the "big pot" pays for and what the "carer's pot" pays for. (if that makes any sense).

this is the problem with seperating the tickets, in my opinion. is that how do the organisers decide what to spend the "carer's" money on. it's quite a tricky one to be honest. certainly glad i don't have to deal with the finances, thats for sure.

:?

i will agree with the whole henry rollins thing if i get my way too. if soni use my three level stage thing then i am entitled to meet corey taylor.

;)
roll on madness and the offspring @ soni 2013!! =D
please use alex's fmc code 1k915233 when booking your ticket. thankies :D

impablomaitons
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby impablomaitons » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:43 am

My guess is that each part of the festival has it's own budget: Security, disabled, stages, etc etc....

So Soni arrange their budgets as usual, and any money coming from a carers ticket, just gets added to the general disabled/accessability budget. Making it a bit bigger, so enabling them to provide a higher standard of accessibility without taking money from any other budgets within the festival.

I totally agree with you - I wouldn't want to be in charge of finances that's for sure, but its just one of a few ideas we have come up with that Soni team can mull over.

I'd just like to say, I did have a really great time this year, I'm not just moaning for the sake of it - managed to get against the 2nd crash barrier with my wheelchair for Rammstein and Maiden :music-rockon: . I reckon having a strict rule of "if you didn't book your ticket correctly, tough" next year would alleviate a lot of the camping/space gripes from this year. As long as the various ticket vendors make people aware of the accessible tickets, and they are clearly visible on booking pages then ppl have no right to complain.

Parsnip
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby Parsnip » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:05 am

impablomaitons wrote: It's about time disabled people dropped the whole "I want EVERYTHING done for me but I don't want to contribute in the slightest" attitude, and realise that sometimes that if you want extra, you have to pay a little extra.


First the budget is not split into disabled and non-disabled people, so halving the cost of a 'carer' ticket will make little difference. Some of my friends won't go if I'm unable and if I can't afford for my 'carer' to go ,that means I can't and my group of mates won't on principal.

In fact in my singular case it would mean Soni would have less spent on drinks and food as my 'carer' bought them but if I can't afford to bring them, maybe I could work out an arrangement with a friend (all my staff need full contracts so a friend couldn't be paid for assisting me) to help me, Soni would be one person down as my PA would not attend unless they’re working for me (they hate rock music!!)


Secondly did your agency cover your wage as a carer, while you were out with a client?

I cover my Personal Assistant wages and it is 'best practice' to provide a companion/'carer' ticket for free if the event staff are unable to provide assistance. I doubt the Independent Living Fund or Social Services will allow me money for a gig ticket for my 'carer' as they would not fund extra loo roll for a PA I employed with tummy issues or money to go toward my PAs travel costs when I need to take them on public transport with me, even though if I did not need PAs I wouldn't have to pay twice on the bus and I can't ask my employees to pay for in work travel costs, so I foot the bill!

I have been disabled all my life, my condition is progressive, I've gone from using a walking frame to now being a full time wheelchair user with limited upper body movement requiring 24/7 care.
However I have also represented my country in wheelchair athletics, gained a first class BSc (hons) degree and lived independently (employing my own staff from when I lost use in my upper body) since I was 18, so I certainly DO NOT want everything done for me!!! And the previous examples demonstrate I work toward things and achieve them and I choose to employ my own PAs rather than have social services or agency carers as I find carers too mothering and do not understand the social model of disability well.

What I do want is for profit-making large scale companies to provide so that I am able to access life without disabiling barriers, I don't think that because I require care through no choice of my own, that I should have to pay to bring in staff, the same way someone does not have to pay for a carer to help them attend the cinema through the CEA card scheme.

I can't afford to save my DLA as that is what I use to employ staff and I have a part-time marketing job, which the money mainly goes on bills, heating and occasional gig tickets!

It is a slippery slope if all venues expect disabled people to pay more for EQUAL facilities. For example when male and female toilets came in would you expect females to have been asked to pay extra as female toilets had to be installed for just them! I hope you would not.

I am sorry this is quite a fired up post, people assuming I 'want everything' when I only want equal access is a big pressure point for me when I work so hard just to live independently.
Last edited by Parsnip on Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

joepescigrindcore
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby joepescigrindcore » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:09 am

impablomaitons wrote:My idea of a 1/2 priced carer/companion ticket was an idea for meeting Soni 1/2 way... if budgeting is a concern for accessible platforms for stages.

Provision of a free carer ticket isn't mandatory. Before I was in my current situation, I worked as a carer and took many clients on short holidays/day trips around the uk, and I would say only roughly 50% of places that required paid entry gave a free or discounted ticket to a carer/companion. The giant fairground in Blackpool being a case in point, no reduction at all for a carer - if my client wanted to go in there it would have cost 2 full price tickets. Same for the Dr Who museum.

I know we as disabled (or whatever the current pc term is these days) just want to be able to enjoy certain activities as well as anyone else, but Soni and other companies only have a legal obligation to comply with the law. If we want them to go the extra mile for us e.g. better placement of platforms, then I think it is only right we meet them 1/2 way.

If someone knows now that they want to attend Sonispehere 2011, then 11 months to save up £80 or £90 extra for a 1/2 price ticket, at least to me is perfectly feasible. I live on £89/week - having to go to tribunal for DLA even though I can only walk 15yds max, but even I could scrape that little bit extra over 11 months.

I don't see the reasoning that if you are paying for a 1/2 price ticket, then Soni staff have to provide care 1/2 the time? The whole point of my idea was to provide extra funding which could be sectioned off to go towards much better/more expensive platforms.

5 heart attacks in past 3 years, severe claudication in both legs - probably amputation in next year or two, awaiting heart bypass surgery and minor brain surgery - and I would be more than willing to stump up an extra £80 or so if it would help. It's about time disabled people dropped the whole "I want EVERYTHING done for me but I don't want to contribute in the slightest" attitude, and realise that sometimes that if you want extra, you have to pay a little extra.

/rant


This makes no sense. Get people who won't be using the facilities to pay for them? If that's the case take the money from the main budget. OR use the money from disabled customers to pay for the disabled facilities!

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kazz
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby kazz » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:16 am

see, now that is the tricky thing cause it is all very well saying "have a strict policy on people who book their tickets wrong" but i always think what if that was me and i had to go home because i couldn't camp in normal camping and i couldn't get on the stages but they wouldn't let me change my ticket cause i booked it wrong, i would be very very upset.

and if it was my fest, i would feel very guilty about saying no to these people. but then i feel guilty a lot of the time so it would hardly be surprising.

:roll:

what about a penalty if you book the wrong ticket. £30 extra or something. if they have clear instructions on the website for people who are disabled to follow when booking their tickets and state that there is a penalty if they do not purchase the correct ticket then they have given advanced warning.

but as you say, this is just suggestions to try and make the festival more enjoyable for everyone and it is up to team soni whether or not they use them. but they are all good suggestions i think. (i am not a fest organiser or have any experience in setting one up or anything, as i have said several times).

as i stated in a previous post, the aim is to have the festival equal for all. maybe they should assess the disabled patrons for the need for a carer, because obviously some require full assistance and others don't really need that level of care. is there any way we can arrange it so that they can be assessed??

it is just a thought. feel free to discuss or debate it with me and/or others further. thats what the feedback section is here for.

:)
roll on madness and the offspring @ soni 2013!! =D
please use alex's fmc code 1k915233 when booking your ticket. thankies :D

impablomaitons
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby impablomaitons » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:57 am

If you had read my post properly, you would see I also suggested a nominal £30 fee. Are you seriously telling me in 11 months you can't scrape £30 together? While disabled might not be a seperate budget from everything else, My suggestion was that the extra money raised be used by Soni to go past what they are required by law to provide.

Look at the pic I posted, that setup wouldn't be cheap but money raised from a nominal carers ticket price might just be enough to persuade Soni team to fork out the rest to do something similar. £30/44 weeks (11 months from now) is 68p per week extra to save... hardly a bank breaker.

What would you prefer, average disabled facilities that comply with the law, or we pay a very small nominal charge for carers ticket and we get much better - great view of the stage and great sound?

By law, Soni only have to comply with the various rules & regs set down by govt. The platforms we had this year, while providing a crap view did just that. The toilets/camping space issues aside they pretty much did comply with the law.
I'm well aware it's "best practice" to provide a carers ticket, but they are not obliged to. They are well within their rights to scrap free tickets for carers, haul in a hell of a lot more more money (people will still come anyway)and not improve the viewing platforms location at all. Not a pleasant thought, but it is the truth.

Yes my wages/travel costs were paid when I took clients to events. I once took a client to a football match, I hate football with a passion, but it was my job, there was also NO reduction in the cost of my ticket either, admittedly paid for by the care home I worked for. Travelling on public transport with them - ticket was full price for me.

My comment about disabled people wanting everything but not willing to contribute anything wasn't aimed at you at all mate, I just get extremely pissed off at the attitude of a lot of disabled people. You have obviously pushed yourself, not willing to just sit back and think "frakk it, why bother, whats the point?", but a lot don't have that attitude, which I think is sad. My best/oldest friend is my greatest inspiration, she is a double amputee has 6 kids and a full time job and always pushes herself to do more.

I get what you mean about the slippery slope, and it is a tricky area for Soni, but if we are willing to go that little extra, honestly, is £30 or even £20 too much to ask?...... then Soni Management might just go above and beyond what they are legally required to do, and we end up with a much better experience.

Parsnip
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby Parsnip » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:19 am

kazz wrote:as i stated in a previous post, the aim is to have the festival equal for all. maybe they should assess the disabled patrons for the need for a carer, because obviously some require full assistance and others don't really need that level of care. is there any way we can arrange it so that they can be assessed??


Yep most places ask for the person to be elligable for Middle or Higher rate Care DLA which means they need Care frequently throughout the day at the very least. The proof is usually via a DLA entitlement letter. Obviously some disabled peole do not recieve DLA but are elligable were I feel a doctors or social services note explaining they needed care in their everyday lives.

I think I get fustrated when people belittle the value of the free carers ticket when they do not require care in their everyday lives as I need my PA with me wether I'm at a festival or watching a DVD in my front room. Without a free carer ticket I would be unable to go out as much as I currently do ad even though my friends offer help
for free, they are not(and I don't expect them to be) not trained to provide the complex assistance I require, so if festivals start stopping carer tickets I will need to always save double or an extra amount for my PAs ticket in order to be able to be able to take medication, use the loo etc which will in effect half the amount of outside events I can attend.

I really don't expect the moon on a stick but just people to understand I need my PA as much as I need my wheelchair and I'd never expect to be asked to pay extra 'or chip for the extra facilities provided' purely because I'm a wheelchair user as that would breach the DDA.

Thanks for listening Kazz and taking time to think of possible soloutions, you rule!

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kazz
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby kazz » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:35 am

no problems. i don't mind listening to people and to be honest i like problem-solving so it has actually been an interesting night for me.

to be honest, i work as a nurse so the whole equality and also care side to these things like festivals and concerts interest me. (hence why i would feel guilty about shutting people out i guess).

but i am happy to listen to people and to work together to try and come up with some solutions which i think we have certain given it a good shot today/tonight. it makes me sad to think of how much fun i had and not have someone else say the same just because they had certain needs that should have been met.

so maybe soni could do this middle or higher care DLA or letter from the doctors to prove people are eligible for the free carer's ticket??

someone mention attitude is everything, is that a charity or something?? i know zac said that they worked with them last year, are they able to provide some people. you know to run the disabled platforms, even just one person to be in charge of the platforms so that if there are any problems with over-crowding or people on the stage that shouldn't be or with staff having the wrong attitude, there is someone specialised who can assist the staff in fixing the problem??

if any of you have any further queries or want to chat or whatever, i am on the boards pretty much everyday and am happy to chat to people. (the trick is getting me to shut up apparently).

;)
roll on madness and the offspring @ soni 2013!! =D
please use alex's fmc code 1k915233 when booking your ticket. thankies :D

Parsnip
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:03 am

Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby Parsnip » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:52 am

impablomaitons wrote:If you had read my post properly, you would see I also suggested a nominal £30 fee. Are you seriously telling me in 11 months you can't scrape £30 together? While disabled might not be a seperate budget from everything else, My suggestion was that the extra money raised be used by Soni to go past what they are required by law to scrap free tickets for carers, haul in a hell of a lot more more money (people will still come anyway)and not improve the viewing platforms location at all. Not a pleasant thought, but it is the truth

My comment about disabled people wanting everything but not willing to contribute anything wasn't aimed at you at all mate, I just get extremely pissed off at the attitude of a lot of disabled people. You have obviously pushed yourself, not willing to just sit back and think "frakk it, why bother, whats the point?", but a lot don't have that attitude, which I think is sad. My best/oldest friend is my greatest inspiration, she is a double amputee has 6 kids and a full time job and always pushes herself to do more.

I get what you mean about the slippery slope, and it is a tricky area for Soni, but if we are willing to go that little extra, honestly, is £30 or even £20 too much to ask?...... then Soni Management might just go above and beyond what they are legally required to do, and we end up with a much better experience.


Sorry for getting so 'het' up about 'wanting everything' I'm in full defence mode
right now as I'm due a social services review which always makes
me adamant to keep my independence and not move into a residential home ( although I know some great ones just not right for me!).

I just saw your further post regarding a £30 charge rather than a full ticket price unfortunatley as
I need to use word (due to assistive IT programmes I use) to reply to each post, so replied before reading your next post.

I would be able to save up £30 but I also need to pay for my PAs travel, hotel, food etc on top of wages, so that extra £30 could impact my budget a huge amount. Also if gigantic followed and charged 'carers' in it would in effect half the amount of gigs I could attend as I'd always be paying extra for my PA so between not attending a gig because I can't afford my PA to come along or better facilities, I'd vote to being able to attend at all although I
would prefer Sonisphere worked on 'best practice' and provided equal access and a companion ticket for those that require it!

I sometimes think having agency care would be so much easier money-wise than employing my own staff through direct payments as I wouldn't have to pay my DLA money to the Independent Living Fund and all expenses such as travel and tickets would be covered but the way agency care works means I couldn't ever have a job and (as I'm sure you saw when you worked as a carer) I would have to deal with the nasty carers that sometimes crop up and also loose the control over my life as the agency manager would decide what times I got up etc *sigh*.

Ps I hate football too but I'm also a girl that despises clothes shopping hehe!

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kazz
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby kazz » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:08 am

i hate going into shops clothes shopping but the internet is my downfall. they should make it harder to get a credit card linked to the internet for shopping.

:roll:

i can tolerate football but it is tricky cause if you know a little, people often misinterpret it as you know a lot. i once had a twenty minute conversation with a patient about some footballer who had apparently dived. i had no clue what he was on about but i smile politely and agreed with the patient.

my dad then explained that the footballer had suffered a very serious injury as a result of the tackle (which the patient had called a dive) and was out for most of the season.

:doh:

anyways, i am managing to assist in the derailing of the thread. have you guys tried out the rest of the forum?? we have chat threads in the chat and other topics section. you don't have to just stick to particular threads. come out and explore. we are a nice and friendly bunch. especially the normal group of night-crawlers.

;)

is there anything else that you think needs addressed that hasn't already been done so?? personally, i think we have covered everything that i can remember being commented on but you guys will know better than me.

:)
roll on madness and the offspring @ soni 2013!! =D
please use alex's fmc code 1k915233 when booking your ticket. thankies :D

impablomaitons
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:04 am

Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby impablomaitons » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:23 am

We all get worked up from time to time, no apology needed at all its a very touchy subject for us all :)

I hate shopping too... my method is... go in, grab the 1st thing that fits and doesn't look terrible, pay and leave!! I reckon I must be one of the very few geordie men that knows nothing about football, I couldn't even tell you the name of one Newcastle Utd player or the name of the manager lol

I have a tribunal this friday, hoping to get DLA myself - can barely walk 15 yards, but according to dss i can "walk adequately"..which leaves me housbound 90% of the time apart from when my dad takes me shopping... highlight of my week... woohoooo :music-rockon: . I can totally understand why you are worked up at the mo.

Maybe tickets for people such as yourself who need assistance pretty much 24/7 get free carer ticket, and others who have limited ability (I can stand up to get served at food vans, sort out my own meds), who basically don't need that level of care but still can't really attend on their own... then pay the reduced fee?

At the end of the day, we are all just trying to come up with ideas for soni, hopefully they will take note of some of them and improve our experience.

Another idea I had - and it wouldn't cost Soni a penny.. staff for disabled camping area/viewing platforms. Contact agencies/care homes looking for volunteers who are rock fans, who have at least a NVQ lvl 2, preferably level 3.. work 3 days (e.g. thur/fri/sat or thur/fri/sun etc etc) and get a free day pass to either the Saturday or Sunday. We end up with staff with relevant training/experience - good for us, and they get a free day to watch some awesome music.

I know we would all love them to dip into their pockets more.. if we can come up with ideas that improve the festival experience that cost nothing or have little cost, you never know they might just spend that extra cash on other areas too.

I was lucky my carer was also my friend who is a rock fan like me, so he was willing to get me down to the 2nd crash barrier sat/sun evenings. Next year if we are lucky if they adopt something similar to the V festival setup, we can ALL enjoy a good view and good sound.

On a side note... I was a senior carer, if I caught any member of staff forcing someone to get out of bed when they didn't want to or fancied a lie in, or even trying to force/bully ANY client into doing anything they didnt want to.... they would get a serious bollocking, and a short reminder on Duty of Care and patient rights. 2nd time it happened - verbal warning. New staff hated me since I was a serious stickler for rules with staff. :twisted:

Far too often people new to care have got their level 2 within 6 months of starting... to me, you should be working a year gaining experience/knowledge completing other courses before you are ready, and it should be made tougher, much tougher.

When I left the clients clubbed together and bought me a new guitar.. so I must have done something right. :D

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kazz
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Re: Disabled Feedback

Postby kazz » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:43 am

i work predominately in the acute sector now but most of my patients get disability allowance (i work in a resiratory ward) so i hope you both get that sorted so you can keep coming to great fest and gigs. as well as enjoying life's other little pleasures, not including shopping obviously.

;)

the pays scale for the carer thing actually sounds like a pretty good idea. hopefully zac or one of the team or a member of the focus group will read this later today (cause they are all sleeping just now) and might adopt some of the suggestions that have been made because i think there are a fair few valid contributions in here.

:)

let me know how you both get on with your hearings and i will definately see you around the boards. but for now, i'm afraid that i am off to bed. nighty night.

:P
roll on madness and the offspring @ soni 2013!! =D
please use alex's fmc code 1k915233 when booking your ticket. thankies :D


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