The 2014 Rant Thread

Have you booked your tickets yet? Who are you looking forward to seeing? Discuss everything and anything relating to Sonisphere here.
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rockgeek
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:41 pm

Let's stop arguing about semantics and all that jazz - this thread needs to ideally be constructive criticism of the festival

In summary, for disabled ticket holders, there seems to be a few issues which again, I am sure will not go unnoticed.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby lolatheminxx » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:38 pm

Spoilsport! I was just about to get the popcorn on!
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby redhed » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:25 pm

wow. So offensive! Some seriously ignorant, uneducated, narrow minded people. Well one that jumped out after I started angry skim reading! Let's hope you never have to experience needing to use the disabled facilities.

1) a disability is a disability. Whether you can see it or not. If someone has mental health problems, who the frakk are you to say they don't need the viewing platform and would be fine in a crowd? Unbelievable!

2) I did point out earlier that having a wheelchair in a crowd is really difficult - the front of the pit isn't an option. Try reversing a mobility scooter through a bunch of people. Its frakking hard work, and can't be done quickly, if you want to see another band, need a wee, have an emergency etc. Also, you can't see through people, and arse height isn't optimum viewing. Also, when you are experiencing constant, horrible pain, and morphine barely touches the sides, the last thing you need is people bashing into you, jarring you and causing more.

3) If there isn't room on the platform, reduce the number of tickets, or increase the size of the platform. Problem solved. You can't over sell venue tickets for those of you in the "majority", as that would be illegal. arsebiscuit.

4) Download manage to cater for the disabled scene perfectly. It can be done, it's not hard and to sell tickets catered for disabled people, when actually, they aren't meeting that need is not okay. If you paid full price for a ticket, but then had the same restrictions placed on you, and missed gooseberry loads of stuff, I imagine you would be pretty fucked off about it.

Lots more I could spout on about, but really, you are wrong, but you don't get it, and I don't like it up here on my soapbox.

In summary, I think I may need a separate rant thread about this rant thread.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:48 pm

Sounds like less disabled tickets will help next year then - can't see a large platform, or 2 of them coming in and having less tickets means more space and less people per resource... or that discriminatory?

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby redhed » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:56 pm

If you have a venue, you have a capacity limit. You cannot sell more tickets than the number of people allowed in there.
If you have a designated area for disabled people, why don't the same rules apply?
It sucks when a gig is sold out, but that happens to everyone. Paying for a gig, but not being able to see it when you get there does not.
Of course, selling less tickets isn't the optimum outcome. I don't know why you can't see a larger platform happening. There is enough room there. And actually it's not hard to estimate the number of people who will need to use the platforms and make them the correct size. There is more than enough room.
Also, if the platforms were the only issue, then it wouldn't be so bad, but the fact is there were numerous problems for people with accessibility tickets, which did impact on the experience.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby redhed » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:03 pm

metalicbear wrote:
red death wrote:
At the moment you are effectively saying pay full price, but only get to hear/see 50% of the bands (much less if you count the other stages which may be impractical to get to) - so (being slightly tongue in cheek) the disabled people are being screwed.

It is nothing at all to do with screwing the "mass majority" - the exact opposite it is about being fair to everyone! It isn't about someone getting VIP treatment but not paying for it at all....



How is that siuation any different to someone who goes to the toilet in between breaks, get's out to discover there's a massive crowd at the stage and so has to stand back and see's the same/ hears the same as those on a disbaled platform? or those who are in a packed crowd and someone really tall decides to squeeze in to the smallest gap and stands in front of them, therefore they can't even see any of the show and it's next to impossible to get out. Disbaled people aren't being any more screwed than the rest of people, in fact they're getting better facilities for the same price as everyone else, but now people want those facilities to be even better, but don't want to pay any more for it as that's discrimination.



My first response to this when I called you something along the lines of a rat-a-tat-tat got deleted, so I'll try again,

This is unbelievably stupid. It is completely different. Someone who goes to the toilet and has to stand at the back, or are packed in etc, have the ability to move easily. Disabled people don't. They aren't getting better facilities, they aren't really even getting adequate facilities. Try paying full price for a ticket, but missing half of what you wanted to see, for something you have no control over.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby hash pipe » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:12 pm

redhed wrote:
metalicbear wrote:
red death wrote:
At the moment you are effectively saying pay full price, but only get to hear/see 50% of the bands (much less if you count the other stages which may be impractical to get to) - so (being slightly tongue in cheek) the disabled people are being screwed.

It is nothing at all to do with screwing the "mass majority" - the exact opposite it is about being fair to everyone! It isn't about someone getting VIP treatment but not paying for it at all....



How is that siuation any different to someone who goes to the toilet in between breaks, get's out to discover there's a massive crowd at the stage and so has to stand back and see's the same/ hears the same as those on a disbaled platform? or those who are in a packed crowd and someone really tall decides to squeeze in to the smallest gap and stands in front of them, therefore they can't even see any of the show and it's next to impossible to get out. Disbaled people aren't being any more screwed than the rest of people, in fact they're getting better facilities for the same price as everyone else, but now people want those facilities to be even better, but don't want to pay any more for it as that's discrimination.



My first response to this when I called you something along the lines of a rat-a-tat-tat got deleted, so I'll try again,

This is unbelievably stupid. It is completely different. Someone who goes to the toilet and has to stand at the back, or are packed in etc, have the ability to move easily. Disabled people don't. They aren't getting better facilities, they aren't really even getting adequate facilities. Try paying full price for a ticket, but missing half of what you wanted to see, for something you have no control over.


That bit in bold. You won't get back to the front row but you'll get more than close enough, walking/pushing through the crowd really isn't that hard. And When someone 12ft tall inevitably stands right infront of you, you can move. Same if the area becomes too lively/crowded.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:21 pm

It'll be interested to see how many disabled ticket holders had a good or bad experience beyond the 2 or 3 on the forums as no matter what forums you go on, the disabled ticket holders seem to be the most vocal (not saying this in a bad way!)

I'm sure Kili did the numbers properly - has anyone got any pics to show the problems? There was an info tent at Soni, did anyone go and complain?

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby redhed » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:37 pm

rockgeek wrote:It'll be interested to see how many disabled ticket holders had a good or bad experience beyond the 2 or 3 on the forums as no matter what forums you go on, the disabled ticket holders seem to be the most vocal (not saying this in a bad way!)

I'm sure Kili did the numbers properly - has anyone got any pics to show the problems? There was an info tent at Soni, did anyone go and complain?



It's not that we are the most vocal, it's just that people post gooseberry that's hard to ignore, as it's really frustrating, and unless you experience it, you don't get it.

No pictures (of what exactly? People getting asked to leave the platforms? Bit weird.). Staff didn't know what was going on; different companies were in charge of different things, and just directed between each other with no solutions.

Everyone we spoke to in the camp and on the platform said the same things. It's frustrating. I'm not bitching because I enjoy it, it's just difficult, and really easy to fix, so I don't see why it's like this.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby hash pipe » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:39 pm

rockgeek wrote:It'll be interested to see how many disabled ticket holders had a good or bad experience beyond the 2 or 3 on the forums as no matter what forums you go on, the disabled ticket holders seem to be the most vocal (not saying this in a bad way!)

I'm sure Kili did the numbers properly - has anyone got any pics to show the problems? There was an info tent at Soni, did anyone go and complain?


I wonder if they're the most vocal because they see the most need for improvement? When things are fine people are much more likely to keep quiet.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby ANXIETY » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:48 pm

frakking hell, never though Metalicbear could come off as an even bigger tool.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:13 pm

Pictures of cramped platform and camping and people do video a lot nowadays

Maybe they're just the most vocal??? As with all things on the internet, it starts off calmly enough until both sides make it into the end of days.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby redhed » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:00 pm

rockgeek wrote:
Maybe they're just the most vocal??? As with all things on the internet, it starts off calmly enough until both sides make it into the end of days.



by both sides, I take it you mean the people who actually experience it, versus the people who have to have an opinion about everything, even if they know nothing about it?
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:18 pm

Yes, by both sides I mean people who experienced it and the people that did not.

I didn't experience it but I'm entitled to an opinion based on my experience and my (limited) knowledge about how a festival is run.

I'm genuinely not trying to sound argumentative!!! I guess we would really need to get a word from the promoters to clear things up

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby kipper64 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:28 pm

To be fair the no. Of complaints this year in total and including accessibilty camping are down - not sure if thats due to less activity or it being genuinely better though. Would be interesting to hear from folks who canped in accessability in previous years and if it was better or worse
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby redhed » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:43 pm

The general feedback from people we chatted to is that it was better than 2010, but worse than 2011.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby kipper64 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:53 pm

2011 was busier and had the same platform though afaik, so im guessing isaues were with campsite itself? 2010 was a ballache due to numerous people not buying disabled camping tickets but needing the facilities so they had to put some in VIP due to lack of space and the lack of space/facilities so not surprised it was better than 2010. Still with 2014 being quieter im surprised they got it more wrong than 2011 but im sureany feedback will be taken into account and worked on, that was certainly the case after 2010 anyways
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby ANXIETY » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:09 pm

2011 was horrible. Far too busy.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby kipper64 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:13 pm

It was certainly a lot busier than other years, I didn't find it a horrible experience but I do think this year was just about right for the arena at the busier points in the day, maybe a few more in the campsite to pad it out but making it easier to have some space is always a good thing - maybe not for Kili :P
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby metalicbear » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:32 am

redhed wrote:

3) If there isn't room on the platform, reduce the number of tickets, or increase the size of the platform. Problem solved. You can't over sell venue tickets for those of you in the "majority", as that would be illegal. arsebiscuit.

4) Download manage to cater for the disabled scene perfectly. It can be done, it's not hard and to sell tickets catered for disabled people, when actually, they aren't meeting that need is not okay. If you paid full price for a ticket, but then had the same restrictions placed on you, and missed gooseberry loads of stuff, I imagine you would be pretty fucked off about it.

Lots more I could spout on about, but really, you are wrong, but you don't get it, and I don't like it up here on my soapbox.

In summary, I think I may need a separate rant thread about this rant thread.


So Sonisphere gets done for discrimination by putting a cap on the amount of disabled people that can attend. What about all those disabled people that miss out on tickets due to this new cap, I'm sure they would be very pleased that 64,900 regular customer can attend, but only say 100 disabled customers can. Then there would be another rant thread on here.

Download is a completely different festival, it's arena capacity is twice that of Sonisphere therefore they have more space, more money, should have better facilities. Their setup is completely different too, they don't have alternating stages opposite each other, they essentially have an arena for stage 1 and another arena for stage 2, Sonisphere's 2 main stages share the same space, hence why the platform is positioned bang in the middle.

You don't need to explain yourself, we get it, everyone else is wrong, you are right and no matter what the arguement, there will always be another issue for you to raise. Oh and please don't call me a rat-a-tat-tat, it's not appreciated.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby metalicbear » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:41 am

hybrid theorist wrote:
I'm sorry, what could that possibly mean, other than "this guy gets on fine, so what can the rest of them have to be complaining about?"

Enlighten me please.


That's not what I meant. The point is, just because there's a platform, doesn't mean everyone with a disability has to use it, as quite clearly there are people who don't need it, don't want to use it for whatever reason as they like to get in the crowd/ get closer to the action, don't want their disability to ruin their experience, don't want to feel like they are restrained etc. Understandably there are people who do need it. The comment wasn't intended to be offensive.

Perhaps there is a different reason as to why it was full, impossible to get in to and not just down to Sonisphere "trying to screw over disabled people" as is coming across on here.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby red death » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:49 am

metalicbear wrote:So Sonisphere gets done for discrimination by putting a cap on the amount of disabled people that can attend. What about all those disabled people that miss out on tickets due to this new cap, I'm sure they would be very pleased that 64,900 regular customer can attend, but only say 100 disabled customers can. Then there would be another rant thread on here.


How is having a finite limit on the number of disabled tickets any different to having a finite limit on the total number of tickets?

metalicbear wrote:You don't need to explain yourself, we get it, everyone else is wrong, you are right and no matter what the arguement, there will always be another issue for you to raise. Oh and please don't call me a rat-a-tat-tat, it's not appreciated.


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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby metalicbear » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:55 am

red death wrote:
How is having a finite limit on the number of disabled tickets any different to having a finite limit on the total number of tickets?



It's called equality. If tickets are still available to buy and it hasn't sold out, why should disabled customers be turned away?
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby PurpleDemon » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:01 pm

metalicbear wrote:
red death wrote:
How is having a finite limit on the number of disabled tickets any different to having a finite limit on the total number of tickets?



It's called equality. If tickets are still available to buy and it hasn't sold out, why should disabled customers be turned away?


If regular camping isn't full but disabled camping is, keeping disabled tickets on sale would only cause problems.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby kipper64 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:20 pm

In those situations they can tailor the size of the campsite to suit though - however obviously the platform is always the same size so there's always going to be an issue there, but that one's a lot harder to judge because not everyone uses the platform, and there's multiple stages at varying levels of busyness throughout the day so it's not easy to judge how many people will be at the platform at any given time or even at peak times.
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