The 2014 Rant Thread

Have you booked your tickets yet? Who are you looking forward to seeing? Discuss everything and anything relating to Sonisphere here.
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rockgeek
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:02 am

What if Kili actually sold out - a lot of tickets could have been sold at last minute thanks to Glasto and other things happening so that can't really be used. Kili have to assume a sell out and build around that.

If there were two platforms, it takes the non-disabled ticket holders long enough to get from one side to another, can you imagine the fiasco and time taken for a disabled ticket holder to switch platforms all day? Maybe having 2 platforms with a bridge might help but yeah... will never happen

The space in disabled camping is always an issue for a few people but the majority always seem happy. I'm not sure if plots were marked out, but if they were, it would help considerably especially as I presume that a lot of people would have took up a massive area regardless of whether they need it or not, just like they do in the non-disabled camping

My point is we have to take these "rants" with a pinch of salt.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby ThornDavis » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:20 am

rockgeek wrote:What if Kili actually sold out - a lot of tickets could have been sold at last minute thanks to Glasto and other things happening so that can't really be used. Kili have to assume a sell out and build around that.


Demonstrably untrue. For example - as with Download - the camping area the festival arranged was clearly reduced well before the event took place. So, evidently they don't assume a sellout and plan to that.

It behooves any business to prioritise the customers that actually exist over the ones that are hypothetical.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby lolatheminxx » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:09 pm

For H&S reasons disabled platforms can't just be thrown in nilly willy. I agree the current system isn't working, but it is a tough situation with added expense no matter what's done.

Realistically speaking even if Apollo and Saturn got one each, people wouldn't have time to get from one to the other. Especially as the rest of the crowd is charging around the place as well.

The only suggestions I can make is to raise the platforms higher up and have better relay speakers around them to improve the sound. Maybe even a 2 tier mini structure, so that more people could use it. People with accessibility issues could go onto the lower level and those with other disabilities could go onto the higher level? I'm just spitballing at suggestions here. Would provide shelter/shade for those on the lowel level too, I think I would like that if it was me!
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:14 pm

ThornDavis wrote:Demonstrably untrue. For example - as with Download - the camping area the festival arranged was clearly reduced well before the event took place. So, evidently they don't assume a sellout and plan to that.

It behooves any business to prioritise the customers that actually exist over the ones that are hypothetical.
That's DLF - nothing to indicate it was going to sell a load more tickets. A lot of smaller festivals I've worked with always build the festival with a sellout in mind, no matter what ticket sales suggest. I've heard from a few sources that the ticket sales picked up massively in the last week for Soni.

Over and beyond the cost involved, the logistics of doing it and it being used are surely at a point where it's not worth it.

o2, Sky, BT and many more care about customers they haven't got yet rather than the ones they do have. Once you're a customer and have bought a product - their view is that "they have you" and their goal is to get new customers. I'm paraphrasing what I was told by a o2 customer rep. and what the BT graduate program taught.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:16 pm

If you increase the size of the platform, make it higher, longer etc, it's another pain in the arse for regular customers, as it obstructs view, creates a bottleneck etc. Let's face it, it's no-win situation.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:19 pm

rockgeek wrote:
Over and beyond the cost involved, the logistics of doing it and it being used are surely at a point where it's not worth it.


The other thing to take in to account is whether it' actually worth it to Sonisphere to add a bigger setup or another platform, are the numbers really that high to warrant it. Apart from a few people on here, is there really a demand for bigger and better disabled facilities, are they getting lots of complaints or is it just a few lost souls on here.

My guess is it's the latter and this issue isn't high priority or worth the money to implement.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:25 pm

I'm sure Kili have a record of all disabled ticket holders so it might be worth emailing/posting for their opinion to see if it's a wider issue than a few people on here

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:26 pm

ThornDavis wrote:It seems cold enough to screw over the disabled people in favour of the rest of the festival goers. Screwing them over for 20,000 punters that haven't even turned up is outright sadistic.


That's not what I said and you know it.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby red death » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:33 pm

metalicbear wrote:So what you're saying is that Sonisphere should pay to have 2 giant platofrms closer to the stages, frakk the mass majority and it shouldn't be reflected in the prices. This is exactly what I was talking about in regards to the attitude of certain people who demand VIP treatment, but aren't prepared to pay for it. As to disabled people limited, did I mention that there were several people on crutches in the crowd, people in wheelchairs not limiting themselves.

I think the only thing that can realistically be improved for disabled festival goers is a larger field for camping.


Let's get this in perspective - we are not talking about "giant" platforms here but an opportunity for disabled people to see/hear what the rest of us see/hear on both stages. At the moment you are effectively saying pay full price, but only get to hear/see 50% of the bands (much less if you count the other stages which may be impractical to get to) - so (being slightly tongue in cheek) the disabled people are being screwed.

It is nothing at all to do with screwing the "mass majority" - the exact opposite it is about being fair to everyone! It isn't about someone getting VIP treatment but not paying for it at all....

Please don't play the "I saw a disabled person in the main crowd so therefore all disabled people should just lump it" card - you have absolutely no way of knowing individual people's situations. For all you know those you saw in the crowd might not have been able to get onto the viewing platform...
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby ThornDavis » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:39 pm

rockgeek wrote:
ThornDavis wrote:Demonstrably untrue. For example - as with Download - the camping area the festival arranged was clearly reduced well before the event took place. So, evidently they don't assume a sellout and plan to that.

It behooves any business to prioritise the customers that actually exist over the ones that are hypothetical.
That's DLF - nothing to indicate it was going to sell a load more tickets.


My post referred primarily to Sonisphere doing it. The parenthesis " - as with download - " is there to indicate that Download did it as well. Both festivals clearly worked to realistic projections, not 'absolutely dreamland best-case scenario' - the evidence to support that is that both booked fewer fields for camping.

o2, Sky, BT and many more care about customers they haven't got yet rather than the ones they do have. Once you're a customer and have bought a product - their view is that "they have you" and their goal is to get new customers. I'm paraphrasing what I was told by a o2 customer rep. and what the BT graduate program taught.


At the risk of derailing the discussion completely, both those people are idiots, and possibly that idiocy is what keeps them at customer rep level rather than - say - rising to head of strategy. It's common knowledge in the world of business that it's cheaper and easier to focus on customer retention than customer acquisition (the figure usually batted around is that it's seven times more expensive to acquire a new customer than to retain an old one). Businesses that disregard that tend to start doing very badly - and doubtless that's why whenever my phone contract comes up for renewal, there's a bagful of financial incentives to bribe me with if I stick with them.

REGARDLESS OF ALL THAT - even if you were correct, the picture you're painting of the Sonisphere team as a group of individuals who will happily take money from disabled people and then underprovide for them because they already have their money and no longer care is not a very pleasant one. If what you say is true, then I think disabled attendees have every right to complain in the strongest terms possible. Your defence makes the Sonisphere team sound like a bunch of crooks.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:44 pm

red death wrote:
At the moment you are effectively saying pay full price, but only get to hear/see 50% of the bands (much less if you count the other stages which may be impractical to get to) - so (being slightly tongue in cheek) the disabled people are being screwed.

It is nothing at all to do with screwing the "mass majority" - the exact opposite it is about being fair to everyone! It isn't about someone getting VIP treatment but not paying for it at all....



How is that siuation any different to someone who goes to the toilet in between breaks, get's out to discover there's a massive crowd at the stage and so has to stand back and see's the same/ hears the same as those on a disbaled platform? or those who are in a packed crowd and someone really tall decides to squeeze in to the smallest gap and stands in front of them, therefore they can't even see any of the show and it's next to impossible to get out. Disbaled people aren't being any more screwed than the rest of people, in fact they're getting better facilities for the same price as everyone else, but now people want those facilities to be even better, but don't want to pay any more for it as that's discrimination.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:47 pm

ThornDavis wrote:REGARDLESS OF ALL THAT - even if you were correct, the picture you're painting of the Sonisphere team as a group of individuals who will happily take money from disabled people and then underprovide for them because they already have their money and no longer care is not a very pleasant one. If what you say is true, then I think disabled attendees have every right to complain in the strongest terms possible. Your defence makes the Sonisphere team sound like a bunch of crooks.


How are they being underprovided for. They have their own campsite, own toilets, a viewing platform with toilets and personal security and their carer get's to stay with them in said facility too all for the price of £0.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:07 pm

In fairness metalicbear, I think ThornDavis could argue with himself

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby CherryInHove » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:09 pm

They're being underprovided for because there wasn't enough space on the viewing platforms as mentioned above and they weren't able to enjoy the bands on both stages as mentioned aboved.

If you paid £210 for your ticket and could essentially only watch main stage, I think you'd be pretty livid about the situation. I mean, that means that they HAD To watch Limp Bizkit. Surely no matter how much you hate the disabled you wouldn't wish that upon them?

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:14 pm

ThornDavis wrote:...the evidence to support that is that both booked fewer fields for camping.
Day ticket holders suck amirite?

ThornDavis wrote:At the risk of derailing the discussion completely, both those people are idiots, and possibly that idiocy is what keeps them at customer rep level rather than - say - rising to head of strategy


In fairness, I'm sure they didn't make it up on the spot and the graduate program piece was delivered by the head of marketing for BT retail. Are you with o2, Sky or BT? They notoriously don't give decent incentive to existing customers with even worse customer ser.... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ThornDavis wrote:REGARDLESS OF ALL THAT - even if you were correct, the picture you're painting of the Sonisphere team as a group of individuals who will happily take money from disabled people and then underprovide for them because they already have their money and no longer care is not a very pleasant one. If what you say is true, then I think disabled attendees have every right to complain in the strongest terms possible. Your defence makes the Sonisphere team sound like a bunch of crooks.
No I'm not :roll: that's your warped take on what I said. How do you even marry up what I said with what you've just wrote?

They're being underprovided for because there wasn't enough space on the viewing platforms as mentioned above and they weren't able to enjoy the bands on both stages as mentioned aboved.
That's from the perspective of one (maybe a few more) person so far on the forums. Each time I went past, there were seemingly a lot of space, even for the headliners.

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We can't be quick to take a few posts on an internet forum as the gospel truth. I'm not saying it's all lies but we need to take it with a pinch of salt. If there are genuine problems then I am sure that Kili will address them. It's not uncommon for hyperbole to be used to make a point and things may well have been much better (or indeed much worse) than stated

With that said - logistically and financially, as someone who has little to no idea around how a festival the size of Soni is put together, like most of us, I would presume the two platform thing did not happen for a very good reason or at the very worse, an oversight

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby ThornDavis » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:37 pm

rockgeek wrote:[ No I'm not :roll: that's your warped take on what I said. How do you even marry up what I said with what you've just wrote?


Because you justified their approach by referring companies that take the stance of "once we have your money, that's all we care about". To be clear, I don't think that is the stance Kili takes - but by arguing that their approach is similar to the unpleasant companies you listed (and seemed to agree that their service and approach was crap) you end up saying that Kili itself is an unpleasant company.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:42 pm

If you and others took that away from what I said, it's something I can't help.

I was trying to make the point that in my experience of smaller festivals, they always envisage more people turning up than they do and this is something Soni *might* have had in mind. Not that they care more about the people that didn't come but "what if more people came, we should account for them". As I also said, from what I have heard, quite a lot people bought tickets in the final week.

Even for bands lower down the pecking order on the stages, the crowd was quite far back and a 2nd stage would have increased congestion, bottle necks etc

Seems you're trying to pick an argument for the sake of it.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby hybrid theorist » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:25 pm

The thing with the platforms is, half of the disabled people will hate whichever solution soni uses.

Current plan, one big platform in the middle - half the people say the view isn't great, its too far away, and that sucks.

Put a platform at either stage - the other half of the people say "how are we supposed to move people on crutches/in wheelchairs when there's only 5 mins between bands, and everyone else is moving, then the platforms too small anyway, I missed all the Saturn bands!"

I suppose they could have all three, but that's a bit unlikely realistically.

I think the current set up should (in theory at least) work really well for disabled campers, better than other fests where you either only get to watch one stages bands all day, or struggle around the EDIT campsite arena.
Maybe its not perfect, but I think I'd rather the soni setup to having to travel half a mile(ish) between the two main stages at L&R/Download.




Also, Metallicbear, don't you think saying "I saw one guy in a wheelchair who didn't need the platform so stop complaining" is a bit offensive? I saw a guy with one leg neck about 6 pints in an hour at Download a few years back. Do you reckon all disabled people should be able to do that too? (he wasn't stood on the disabled platform if that makes any difference).
Hell, I've seen an able bodied man run a marathon, can you do that? Or manage the walk at download without complaining, loads of able bodied people do that.

whether you think the disabled fans are asking a bit much (Im sitting on the fence for this one) I really think you should apologize for that comment.
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:26 pm


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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby CherryInHove » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:31 pm

hybrid theorist wrote:Maybe its not perfect, but I think I'd rather the soni setup to having to travel half a mile(ish) between the two main stages at L&R/Download.


That must have been absolute hell at Download 2012. I do remember seeing some people in wheelchairs there and being mightily impressed with their devotion to being at the festival considering how many people who could walk fine gave up after the first night.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:34 pm

God forbid they want to go from 2nd stage to the tent at DLF

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby CherryInHove » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:39 pm

That's probably why the installed the zipline in 2013. They decided it would be easier for someone in a wheelchair to go up all those stairs and zip across with their chair than brave the potential quagmire.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby ThornDavis » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:40 pm

God Forbid aren't disabled. A couple of them are black, but it's wrong to suggest that that's somehow the same thing.

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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:22 pm

hybrid theorist wrote: I really think you should apologize for that comment.


You want me to apologise for a comment that you read in the wrong context? How about no, but you can have this instead :obscene-moneypiss:
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Re: The 2014 Rant Thread

Postby hybrid theorist » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:36 pm

Oh no, an offensive emote. My feels! :roll:
metalicbear wrote:
CherryInHove wrote:What a frakking insensitive view.

"Oh, you're in a wheelchair and you want to be able to go to a music festival well frakk you, there are loads of people who aren't in wheelchairs and they want to go and it's easier to make space for them so you can suffer."


Nothing insensitive about it and you're missing the point entirely.

As for people in wheelchairs, there's a guy who I've seen at every UK Sonisphere, who is always at the barrier at the main stages. So don't try that one.


I'm sorry, what could that possibly mean, other than "this guy gets on fine, so what can the rest of them have to be complaining about?"

Enlighten me please.
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