Sonisphere UK 2014

Have you booked your tickets yet? Who are you looking forward to seeing? Discuss everything and anything relating to Sonisphere here.
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ThornDavis
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby ThornDavis » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:23 am

Download makes a loss each year? So... they just put it on year after year as a f--kin' favour to us lot? If that's the case why do so many people slag it off? How ungrateful!

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rockgeek
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:18 am

Bestival only broke even after 5 years or so and that pretty much sold out each year (or did it, I can't use Google)

LN make an absolute mint elsewhere and probably get a lot more from the resulting tours from the bands that play the festival. That said, with the line up this year, I wouldn't be overly surprised if it did turn a profit. In fact, it might even have turned one last year since Soni didn't go ahead and ticket sales went swimmingly well.

Sometimes it's good to take a hit for the greater good - whether this be ensuring Sonisphere has no future or long term, to ensure bands/fans recognise the brand and buy into it.

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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby CC Deville » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:42 am

Will it return - who knows. They still have the Euro dates so I don't see it being too difficult for them to set up a UK leg using many of the bands that play the other dates. Not much difference between that or some other Euro destination. Personally I would prefer more one day events. I have no idea if they work financially but one off events with 5 or 6 bands like the old MOR events would go down well at places like Knebworth.
One big stage and maybe a smaller jager type stage and a 200 metre long L shaped bar. That's all you need.

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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:09 pm

rockgeek wrote:Bestival only broke even after 5 years or so and that pretty much sold out each year (or did it, I can't use Google)

LN make an absolute mint elsewhere and probably get a lot more from the resulting tours from the bands that play the festival. That said, with the line up this year, I wouldn't be overly surprised if it did turn a profit. In fact, it might even have turned one last year since Soni didn't go ahead and ticket sales went swimmingly well.

Sometimes it's good to take a hit for the greater good - whether this be ensuring Sonisphere has no future or long term, to ensure bands/fans recognise the brand and buy into it.


Yeah, but didn't Bestival have a smaller capacity back then, it's only in the last few years that it's extended to the level it is now.

As to Download, I have actually heard something similar to you. I don't for one second think they could have made much profit in 2009, I'm probably wrong though, but like you said, sometimes they need to take a hit and in 09 they had to pull out all the stops. The same went for the following year as well, due to the rise of sonisphere.
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:11 pm

CC Deville wrote:Will it return - who knows. They still have the Euro dates so I don't see it being too difficult for them to set up a UK leg using many of the bands that play the other dates. Not much difference between that or some other Euro destination. Personally I would prefer more one day events. I have no idea if they work financially but one off events with 5 or 6 bands like the old MOR events would go down well at places like Knebworth.
One big stage and maybe a smaller jager type stage and a 200 metre long L shaped bar. That's all you need.


I've heard a few people say something similar, but I get the impression they are fans of the old MOR, which sank quicker than the Titanic. People expect more for their money these days, not less, so something similar to back then wouldn't even take off.
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metalicbear
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:20 pm

JAMEZ! wrote:
also, i know this is putting it really basically, but in terms of "straw which broke the camels back", could the fact Black Sabbath, and then Iron Maiden chose to play Download over sonisphere be the reason sonisphere hasn't had "good enough" headliners the last 2 years? i mean, Sabbath was THE band of 2012, and with the set Maiden are playing on this tour, i would say its a big pull. Just a few thoughts on the matter. Personally, i would be ecstatic if sonisphere returned. The size, the line-ups, the crowd and even the lay out (i know, that dip at saturn) made it the perfect festival. heres hoping, ey?


Exactly this. Each year there's a stand out act that must be got at all costs. If they don't get them, then they have to think huge in order top them. In 2011 the golden goose was The Big 4, nothing was going to top them, Download would have needed another AC/DC, in 2012 it was quite clearly Black Sabbath, this year is Iron Maiden and I have no doubt that they were top of Kili's list to book and that could be one of the reasons they chose not to go ahead, there's very little out there that would have come close, as most bands touring in the Summer already have extensive UK tours. Sorry to say that Metallica will almost certainly be the golden goose next year, but Sonisphere will have to battle it out with Reading on that one.
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby hybrid theorist » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:32 pm

metalicbear wrote:As to Download, I have actually heard something similar to you. I don't for one second think they could have made much profit in 2009, I'm probably wrong though, but like you said, sometimes they need to take a hit and in 09 they had to pull out all the stops. The same went for the following year as well, due to the rise of sonisphere.

There's a world of difference from "losing money in a bad year like 2008" and "losing money in every year, and losing a ton of money in the bad ones."

Is it really worth the risk? If its a calculated "we can throw £1m a year at this, its worth it" that's one thing, but in a bad year they'd lose way more than that.
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:55 pm

hybrid theorist wrote:There's a world of difference from "losing money in a bad year like 2008" and "losing money in every year, and losing a ton of money in the bad ones."

Is it really worth the risk? If its a calculated "we can throw £1m a year at this, its worth it" that's one thing, but in a bad year they'd lose way more than that.


It depends, a year with strong profit, could potentially offset a bad year. There's ways of reducing costs though, like Sonisphere's intentions of offering bands "packages" or by hiring the same stage/equipment/crew and touring it around, rather than hiring different one's, Download's idea of having the arena as far away from the campsite as possible to increase revenue on site etc.

Festivals should be prepared to take a hit once in a while to build up relations with fans and bands though, Download put on top heavy lineups in 09 and 10, built up a solid core fan base, created the urgency to buy tickets in case it sells out, extended the capacity etc and then for the last couple of years, put out normal looking lineups that you would expect from a festival half the size. I've seen this happen with a number of different festivals, but they sell out and make a profit based on the years they took a hit, the most notable being Reading, who are in such a strong position where they sell out without a lineup even being announced, but people have grown wise to this, so now they have to take a hit and give the punters more for their money, but by 2015 they will be back to putting on bland lineups.

Sonisphere will have to play it safe and splash out, if it's to make a comeback and that means Metallica and Linkin Park type bookings. Unless they can get a band like Muse on board.
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby mrpaul » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:00 pm

metalicbear wrote:Download's idea of having the arena as far away from the campsite as possible to increase revenue on site etc.


Thus losing one of the most highly commended aspects of the festival.
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:05 pm

mrpaul wrote:
metalicbear wrote:Download's idea of having the arena as far away from the campsite as possible to increase revenue on site etc.


Thus losing one of the most highly commended aspects of the festival.


Aye, but then they ease people's thoughts by saying we'll look in to it, which saves them a couple of years.
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby King_Walnut » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:47 pm

Download must've suffered a shitload of lost revenue last year because of that weather. Yeah ticket sales went as well as they could've but the food/drink/merch sales would've been relatively terrible and they're the biggest source of profit.
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby ThornDavis » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:04 pm

Surely it's the vendors who take that hit. I mean, DL will charge them for the plot and that charge will reflect the fact it's a sellout, that people can't go back to their tents to eat, etc etc, but Download won't take a % of the sales from a burger van or whatever.

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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:20 pm

ThornDavis wrote:Surely it's the vendors who take that hit. I mean, DL will charge them for the plot and that charge will reflect the fact it's a sellout, that people can't go back to their tents to eat, etc etc, but Download won't take a % of the sales from a burger van or whatever.


It depends what system they use, whether it's a plot fee, with various prices depending on location of vendor and obviously the price would go up depending on how many tickets they sell or the other option is to take a percentage of the overall profits that the vendor makes.
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby ThornDavis » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:34 pm

I'd put all my money on it being a plot fee, like a stand at an Expo. Download won't change the price as ticket sales go up, but they'll negotiate on the grounds that "we're expecting 120k people through the site a day, and our surveys indicate that each person spends £20 on snacks and blah blah blah". In an underattended year, all that will happen is that the vendors will be pissed off and the person in charge of selling the plots will have to sweet-talk them into coming back the next year. But that will be something they'll be good at, which is why they have that job.

The reasons why they must do it this way:

1. Having money up-front helps cash flow.
2. Trying to ascertain what business each vendor did over the weekend would be a ballache like no other.
3. The more precision you have over how much you expect to make the better. A plot fee tells you for certain you've got x amount coming in, but with a %age of sales you may not know whether you'd even broken even until months later
4. You don't really want responsibility for your financial success handed over to some goon in a kebab van.

I just can't see them taking a percentage of food sales. It's too hard to track and all that would happen is vendors would say they did half the business they actually did. A festival will just charge a fortune for the plot and leave it to the company to decide whether it's worth it.

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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:51 pm

With RFID, it's easy to track as a load of European festivals have shown and if going down the RIF route, studies show punters spend 20% more on average

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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby hybrid theorist » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:57 pm

metalicbear wrote:It depends, a year with strong profit, could potentially offset a bad year.

I thought you said the rumour was that they weren't turning a profit on any of the ten years of operating though?

I've no doubt that there's been years they've failed to break even (and most fests lose money the first year or two) but rockgeek said it had failed to turn a profit every year.

I'm confused :lol:
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby ThornDavis » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:00 pm

rockgeek wrote:With RFID, it's easy to track


My understanding of RFID is that there's a direct correlation between how easy it is to track the transactions, and whether or not you use the technology in the first place. Download, which doesn't use RFID, would find it very difficult to track transactions using RFID in much the same way that I would find it very difficult to drive to work if I didn't have a car.

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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby metalicbear » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:39 pm

hybrid theorist wrote:I thought you said the rumour was that they weren't turning a profit on any of the ten years of operating though?

I've no doubt that there's been years they've failed to break even (and most fests lose money the first year or two) but rockgeek said it had failed to turn a profit every year.

I'm confused :lol:


I didn't say not in any of the years, obviously they would have, otherwise they wouldn't exist, I said they would have had to take a hit on some of the years in order to expand the following years.
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:58 pm

ThornDavis wrote:
rockgeek wrote:With RFID, it's easy to track


My understanding of RFID is that there's a direct correlation between how easy it is to track the transactions, and whether or not you use the technology in the first place. Download, which doesn't use RFID, would find it very difficult to track transactions using RFID in much the same way that I would find it very difficult to drive to work if I didn't have a car.
Well, yeah... erm.... yeah. Sorry, why did you make that point captain obvious?

If festivals would have cashless payments then they'd be able to track all that stuff better and it would also see an increase in revenue for the vendors.

Anyway, as for the profit thing, it's what I heard but it may have been Chinese whispers at the time thanks to some beers. Meh.

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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby ANXIETY » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:40 pm

Selling out a festival and making a loss? I strongly doubt that. The only year Download will have likely taken a loss will have been 2011 (Since 2009)
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby rockgeek » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:59 pm

Well, it's true. No festival ever has made a profit in its first few outings that I know of. It's pretty unheard.

Bestival for example had a plan to break even after 3 years (I think) but it took them 5 (I think). Soni would have been roughly the same.

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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby ANXIETY » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:08 pm

But with Download it is now in its eleventh year?
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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby Blackwater » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:20 am

Soni should have just put on the festival last year you can't have a great line-up every year Download has survived despite having sh it line-ups in 08/10 and 11, I'm pretty sure Soni will never happen again in the UK due to them cancelling 2 years in a row.
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BABYMETAL to headline Sonisphere 2015

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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby rockgeek » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:56 am

ANXIETY wrote:But with Download it is now in its eleventh year?
Yup. As I said, it could have broken even or made profit recently with Soni UK not going ahead

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Re: Sonisphere UK 2014

Postby add » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:35 pm

It is true that festivals run losses quite regularly, alot arent really in it for the profit, glasto for example give away all profits to charity

and ticket sales arent really an indication because they dont make up the money spent on their own anyway


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