Game of Thrones

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Black Wizard
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Black Wizard » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:50 pm

It was a decent way to open the second series. The main difficulty with adapting ASOIAF into a TV series is that there is so much happening at the same time so some episodes will chop & change a bit more than I'd like. HBO have dealt with it pretty well even if it does mean dropping parts of the story.

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Grables
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Grables » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:07 pm

Second episode was good, but I had a lot of beef with things they have changed (rather unnecessarily) that really pissed me off.

1. Changing Asha's name to 'Yara', to avoid confusion with the character 'Osha' - Don't know how the frakk you could confuse those characters.

2. Arya doesn't tell Gendry about who she really is until much later (was either near the end of this one, or at the start of the next book)

3. When Tyrion gets rid of Janos Slynt, he gives command of the city watch to a guy called Jacelyn Bywater, he NEVER gives the command to Bronn - wtf is up with that. Because of what happens later, that's going to frakk with the story.
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Black Wizard
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Black Wizard » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:20 pm

Grables wrote:3. When Tyrion gets rid of Janos Slynt, he gives command of the city watch to a guy called Jacelyn Bywater, he NEVER gives the command to Bronn - wtf is up with that. Because of what happens later, that's going to frakk with the story.

I suppose that one makes the TV storyline much simpler. They don't have to introduce another character and get to take out a chunk of the book storyline. It will, however, be somewhat odd with Bronn as Commander of the City Watch instead though.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Tomfiend4.0 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:26 pm

Started watching season one last week, absolutely loving it.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby mrpaul » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:04 pm

Tomfiend4.0 wrote:Started watching season one last week, absolutely loving it.


Same. Only on number 3 so far but it's great.
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Grables
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Grables » Tue May 01, 2012 4:10 pm

Ohhh maaan :o

Just read a certain chapter in 'A Storm of Swords' (pt 2) - the Freys are douchebags :-x

BW will know what I'm on about.

Tbh, I have no idea where they are going with this.. at all :shock:
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Monstar111 » Thu May 10, 2012 6:35 pm

Isn't Jojen and Meera mean't to be here now? Are they not including them in the tv series?
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Grables » Fri May 11, 2012 5:15 pm

Monstar111 wrote:Isn't Jojen and Meera mean't to be here now? Are they not including them in the tv series?


Thats what I was thinking. They should have come up when Bran started having the 'Green Dreams'.

They have to introduce them at some point though. Anyone who's read 'A Storm of Swords' will know that the Bran storyline would be near enough impossible to do without them.

I did see something along the lines of the creators not wanting to introduce characters until they become and important part of the storyline. So they can avoid confusion over names from the viewers, and not make viewers have to wait for likeable characters to become integral.

Another couple of characters I thought they would have introduced by now is Edmure Tully and Brynden Tully, or any of Catelyn's family for that matter. As they have fairly important roles. Maybe they are skipping that area entirely? Meaning they'll skip out the battle on the Red Fork (I wanted to see Ser Gregor injured and running away from battle :lol: )
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Monstar111 » Sat May 12, 2012 12:14 am

Noo that battle is beast! I really hope they do that one.. so many good bits coming soon.. but as the S02 goes on I realize a lot of it will be in S03 which means Im getting all lost in the books - again - might have to re-read them XD

I too read somewhere/might of seen a youtube video where they were saying how some characters were being kept out for the sake of the series. The books hold a lot of information to try and put that all onto screen I can only imagine the amount of time and effort so cut backs are made I guess. :/
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Xale
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Xale » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:23 pm

Reviving this thread.
Good start to the new series; loved Tywin and the lack of Bran. The Hound and Arya's scenes were amazing, it's all good :D
This is the first series where I've read the books beforehand and, to be honest, I wish I hadn't. The TV series is far better and knowing what's going to happen is gonna take some of the fun out of it :(

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Rick » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:31 pm

I am shocked to hear someone say the TV series is better than the books, the books have such a large amount of detail in them that the series cannot hope to ever touch. My favorite bits in the books are the fact that at certain points it will tell you a very important fact but only if you really concentrate, read between the lines and remember facts and lines from the previous books.

I like the TV series and cant wait for episode 3 as one of my mates is starring in this season but certain pieces of the plot I feel are heavily missing, either that or they are forced to outright show you a statement that would otherwise be left ambiguous.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Xale » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:39 pm

I do love the amount of detail that goes into the books, and I like the whole epic feel of it. However, I think it's very poorly written. Just my opinion and I really wish I enjoyed them more, but the writing style is so boring. And inconsistent, it's half faux medieval and half modern, I know George RR Martin created a fictional world so the characters can speak however they want but, for me, it totally breaks the immersion when one line someone is "breaking their fast" then calling their cousin "cuz". That, and because of the POV chapters some characters can seem flat and one dimensional. In the tv series, Tywin and Davos Seaworth are so much more interesting. Although I do prefer the book's version of Tyrion; all twisted and dark, rather than the sexy mini-man who just wants to sort everything out (as much as I love Peter Dinklage's performance)

Edit: Who's your mate playing, Rick? If you're allowed to say, that is :)

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Rick » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:48 pm

He is playing a wildling in episode 3, 8, 9, 10

He lives over in Carlingford, Ireland and because they do a lot of filming over in Ireland he decided to apply for the role of "prominent extra" as a laugh given that he has no acting skills and works as an outward bound instructor. He has shown me the photos of himself but is not allowed to put them on the internet until its shown.

I am pretty jealous, but i will compensate by cheering at the TV because he gets killed in episode 10 I think
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Xale » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:53 pm

That's cool, I hope he had fun, or at least got paid quite a bit for it. I heard being a GoT extra is grueling. I was an extra in a film last year and I was speaking to some people who were extras in Series 3 and they spent 11 hours a day for 3 days walking up and down a field to be in one scene for about five seconds :lol:

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Rick » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:59 pm

Xale wrote:I do love the amount of detail that goes into the books, and I like the whole epic feel of it. However, I think it's very poorly written. Just my opinion and I really wish I enjoyed them more, but the writing style is so boring. And inconsistent, it's half faux medieval and half modern, I know George RR Martin created a fictional world so the characters can speak however they want but, for me, it totally breaks the immersion when one line someone is "breaking their fast" then calling their cousin "cuz". That, and because of the POV chapters some characters can seem flat and one dimensional. In the tv series, Tywin and Davos Seaworth are so much more interesting. Although I do prefer the book's version of Tyrion; all twisted and dark, rather than the sexy mini-man who just wants to sort everything out (as much as I love Peter Dinklage's performance)

Edit: Who's your mate playing, Rick? If you're allowed to say, that is :)


Also I can completely understand what you mean, I always finding it a little bit cringey when books try to merge modern concepts in an old world setting. There is a series of books called The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks and the main character is an assassin, i really enjoyed the books but there is one part where they have a wedding, and the go shopping as couples do and it doesn't work as I was just thinking well what the frakk would they shop for in a "medievil world". His bride to be can't just pop into H&M for some new cheap as frakk shoes.

I suppose it depends a lot on how invested in the story I am as to whether I can overlook it as a major or minor groan.

Other books that are worth a read (imo) if you enjoy the fantasy genre:

Malazan Book of The Fallen (10 books) - bit drawn out in parts & the chars survive a bit to much at points, but the overall story is good.
The Kingkiller Chronicles (2 books, 1 more to go) - couldn't put these down, has a great angle on the hero by making him smart not strong
The Riftwar Cycle (30 books) - yeah there is a lot of them but they are in groups of 3 or 4, good story arc over multiple generations
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby ThornDavis » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:24 pm

Xale wrote:I do love the amount of detail that goes into the books, and I like the whole epic feel of it. However, I think it's very poorly written. Just my opinion and I really wish I enjoyed them more, but the writing style is so boring. And inconsistent, it's half faux medieval and half modern, I know George RR Martin created a fictional world so the characters can speak however they want but, for me, it totally breaks the immersion when one line someone is "breaking their fast" then calling their cousin "cuz". That, and because of the POV chapters some characters can seem flat and one dimensional. In the tv series, Tywin and Davos Seaworth are so much more interesting. Although I do prefer the book's version of Tyrion; all twisted and dark, rather than the sexy mini-man who just wants to sort everything out (as much as I love Peter Dinklage's performance)


'Cuz' frequently crops up as an abbreviation for 'cousin' in Shakespearean plays, which is presumably why George RR Martin thought it was OK to use without his characters sounding like Bill and Ted.

I'm also amazed to see the books described as poorly written or boring. They came across as very direct to me, and managed the difficult trick of being very kinetic and driven by very active language and also very atmospheric. That's hard to pull off because the more you concentrate on smells and sounds and sights, the more you ease off the pressure on the narrative. Yet the first three manage that balance almost to perfection.

They (the first three) also manage the set-pieces with absolutely masterful control. The build up to the Battle of Blackwater is not only tense, but it's absolutely crystal clear in terms of what's at stake, where the power imbalances lie between the two sides, and what constitutes a tide-shifting change of advantage. The whole of Clash of Kings is littered with clever little bits of exposition that will come to play in that final battle, bits of information about the geography of King's Landing, insights into naval battle that drift throught Davos's thoughts, concerns Tyrion has about his defences. It's measured out to the reader in controlled doses, but by the time you get to the battle you have an iron grip of what everyone wnats and needs to happen, so when things go tits-up for either side, it doesn't need a following paragraph of exposition explaining why it's bad. The reader just knows. That takes an immense amount of authorial control and discipline.

I'd also point to the duel in the third book that effectively acts as its dramatic climax, as something else that demonstrates Martin's madskillz as a writer. It's much more low key than some of the other battles, but the stakes feel sky-high because of the way Martin has arranged his story. You're utterly invested in the outcome, again, you have a complete understanding of the situation going into the set-piece, and you've arrived there courtesy of a mercilessly logical narrative stemming naturally from established character traits. What's more, he stages it in such a way that even if you're becoming tuned in to his narrative conventions it's impossible to second-guess the outcome. And what a duel it turns out to be! A half dozen pages of atmospheric, emotionally gripping action delivered with clarity and control and resolved in an utterly unexpected, sickening, believable way.

Now, I'm not suggesting that Martin is, like, A Great American Writer like Saul Bellow, or Thomas Pynchon. In the latter two books he indulges his descriptive powers a bit too much, and that's when he's at his worse - describing the purple wefts of the eddying streams or some such bullcrap. But the first three are pretty restrained in that regard, by the standards of the genre, and when he plays to his formidable strengths he is just fantastic.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Xale » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:37 pm

Really wish I had enjoyed them. But I think reading too much postmodern stuff has ruined me. I've also found myself not enjoying the Dexter series of books, despite the fact that the narrator is fantastic.
But I couldn't get immersed in the books, apart from, oddly enough, Brienne's story when she
minor Spoilers for A Feast for Crows (Fourth book) | Show
leaves King's Landing to look for Sansa and Arya. Particularly the parts with Nimble Dick Crabb

There were too many little details, which I'm sure most people love, where it seems like Martin is taking up a conversational tone with the reader. I'll accept I was wrong about the "cuz" thing though, I should've known that considering I spent the best part of a year in college studying Shakespeare. But there's one bit which sticks out to me, and it's definitely me being petty, in the first book where it says something like "Robert left the room in such a way that it looked like he had a dagger stuck up his butt!". Things like that and, as you mentioned, the constant descriptions of food or something make me not want to read on, which is a shame, because the way the whole thing connected together is nothing short of incredible.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby ThornDavis » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:49 pm

Some of the stuff around the female characters is kind of wince-inducing too, it has to be said. Like, Daenerys is constantly thinking about what her knockers are doing under whatever chiffron dress she's wearing or whatever - whether they're bouncing or swaying or brushing - but on the whole I think of him as a 'good writer' just because the things he does well are really difficult to get right.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Black Wizard » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:03 pm

The TV series isn't a patch on the books. Too much has to be, understandably, omitted because of time constraints and the TV plot isn't as faithful to the books as it ought to be. I also find the over sexualization of the TV series unnecessary. There was no need for that ridiculous lesbian scene in the brothel a couple of series ago or that gay scene with Renly and Loras. The show gets enough viewers from how impressive it is visually and the brilliant acting without the OTT sex scenes.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby mrpaul » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:25 pm

Rick wrote:The Kingkiller Chronicles (2 books, 1 more to go) - couldn't put these down, has a great angle on the hero by making him smart not strong


Oh god yes! I picked both books up for a quid each in a charity shop about a year ago, one of the biggest bargains ever! Such a great story, Patrick Rothfuss needs to get on with writing the third, but it could be a while :(
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Xale
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Xale » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:21 am

Rick wrote:
Other books that are worth a read (imo) if you enjoy the fantasy genre:

Malazan Book of The Fallen (10 books) - bit drawn out in parts & the chars survive a bit to much at points, but the overall story is good.
The Kingkiller Chronicles (2 books, 1 more to go) - couldn't put these down, has a great angle on the hero by making him smart not strong
The Riftwar Cycle (30 books) - yeah there is a lot of them but they are in groups of 3 or 4, good story arc over multiple generations

Thanks, I'll look into these when I've finished uni.

I know I've given George RR Martin shit for his writing style, but the man can write a damn good episode. My favourite parts were when Tyrion was trying to cheer Jaime up and when Tywin and Olenna Tyrell were talking. Considering the end, that says a lot about how good the dialogue was in this episode. It's a shame I know what's going to happen this series, but it still could be amazing. I'm also particularly interested in Theon's storyline, because I haven't read A Dance with Dragons. Also, if I'm not mistaken, I think that part has overtaken what Martin has written in the books?

However, while I did enjoy the episode. I would have preferred Jaime to train with Ilyn Payne instead of Bronn. Although I understand if Wilko Johnson wasn't up for it.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Spiritinthesky » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:05 am

I'm enjoying this, good series.

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Rick » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:57 am

My mate made a very good point about the training with Ilyn (aside from the cancer)

Whilst in the books it works because you get the descriptions of the event, in the TV show you need some banter to make the event carry off better. If they just continually showed jamie fumbling it would probably end up being a little to comic, so instead the are using Bronn to give some narrative to the situation also I think they need to give Bronn the face time for later on in the series.

major Spoilers for A Feast for Crows (Fourth book) | Show
So that when Tyrion flees westeros Bronn can still frakk about in the capitol pissing Cersei off... I want to see his joust with the Knight from Feast
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Rick » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:16 am

So then who has watched it, Its my favourite scene from the books and I can genuinely say the show did not disappoint.

Arya & Sansa Spoilers | Show
Also I really liked how Arya had her little hysterical outbreak, the TV show is doing a great job of building her character to the point of indiffernce that will suit her when she reaches The House of Black and White

Not sure if I like what they are doing with Sansa, the TV Sansa is far more interesting that the book versions. However the sudden change in her attitude seems too sudden given how she was so afraid of Joffrey, and Littlefinger is 100x worse as he doesn't have his mother to reign in his lust for power.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Xale » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:24 am

Awesome, I knew what was gonna happen and I was still thinking "they can't do that!"

Arya/Minor book spoilers | Show
Did Arya and the Hound even make it to The Eyrie in the books? 'Cause if they get inside that would deviate from the books a lot. I'm guessing they'll contrive a reason to send them away.

Also, I wasn't too much of a fan of the scene with Sansa and Littlefinger because Littlefinger looked like he didn't have much of a plan, which goes against his character; even if they'd shown a scene where it indicated that they'd planned the suicide story beforehand it would have worked better.


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